| December 31st, 2000 / January 1st, 2001
[22:14] <Brent> well.. PR was smart enough to grow up with the little kids that started watching it during MMPR.. most of them probably still watch it today and like the toys [22:14] <MegaBlue> oh, those "battle rage" ones that come with the attacks? [22:14] <MegaBlue> Venusaur, Pikachu, Charizard, and Blastoise [22:14] <Donte> hehe, I know I did [22:15] <Donte> I was 10 when PR started... [22:15] <SuperFireCamron> Nidoran and a few others.. They are doing supproisingly well... [22:15] <MegaBlue> I'd almost turned 13 [22:15] <StarFalcon> I stopped playing with toys years ago :) [22:15] <MegaBlue> but, I swear it premiered after 8/28 [22:15] <SuperFireCamron> And Pokemon Will never fully die out. Nintendo will always bring them back in another game. [22:15] <MegaBlue> oh god, Nintendo Pokemon games [22:15] <Mitsou> i was a freshman in college when PR started :/ [22:16] * Brent gets Mits a wheelchair :) [22:16] <MegaBlue> Hey You Pikachu has burned itself into my mind and it won't go away [22:16] <StarFalcon> Mits is an old fogey ;) [22:16] <Donte> lol [22:16] <Mitsou> lets hear how old Rap was when PR started... :) [22:16] <SP-Drudge> Brent: Not mine. [22:16] <MegaBlue> she is not old =P [22:17] <Rap> i was um..... [22:17] <Rap> 22? [22:17] <StarFalcon> Mits is a hot old fogey, but still an old fogey none the less ;) [22:17] * SuperFireCamron is the youngest here? [22:17] <MegaBlue> you are? [22:17] <SP-Drudge> I'm only three and a half years old. [22:17] <MegaBlue> SP, no [22:17] <StarFalcon> how old are you Cam? [22:17] <MegaBlue> that's CyberBlue [22:17] <MegaBlue> you're older [22:18] <Rap> i was a junior in college when pr started [22:18] <Donte> Cam, how old are you? [22:18] <SP-Drudge> MB: 6? [22:18] <MegaBlue> that works [22:18] <SP-Drudge> ok [22:18] <Mitsou> at 22? oh that's right you were a soldier girl before college [22:18] <SuperFireCamron> 19+ [22:18] <MegaBlue> Donte's only 16... [22:18] <Donte> Well, I'm 17 [22:18] <MegaBlue> 17 [22:19] <Donte> Just turned 17 [22:19] <MegaBlue> I'm 20... [22:19] <StarFalcon> what the heck is 19+? [22:19] <MegaBlue> 19 with experience ;) [22:19] <Starscream> Donte is older than me? [22:19] * StarFalcon is 19+ then :P [22:19] <MegaBlue> * SuperFireCamron smacks MB with his cane... "Quiet, you little whippersnapper!" [22:19] <Donte> guess so [22:19] <Starscream> Boo hoo [22:20] <MegaBlue> no, Cory... [22:20] <SuperFireCamron> Its called a typo ;) [22:20] <MegaBlue> there's hope for you yet :) [22:20] <StarFalcon> sometimes I feel like I'm about 80 :P [22:20] * Mitsou mixed this drink a little too strong, icky taste [22:20] <MegaBlue> although, hanging around Adam all the time is having bad effects on you... [22:20] <Donte> hehe [22:20] * MegaBlue sends Cory to his room until he's 30 and Adam's in jail for prostitution [22:20] <MegaBlue> err [22:20] <MegaBlue> pimping [22:21] <MegaBlue> whatever [22:21] <QT> woohoo!! :) [22:21] <Starscream> lol [22:21] <MegaBlue> I'll let you out to go to his and Bubba's wedding [22:21] * Starscream will be rather bored in there for 14 years [22:21] <Starscream> and starving [22:21] <MegaBlue> Adam, he already told me, gets to wear the dress [22:21] <MegaBlue> your room's like an apartment... sheesh, what kinda non-parent do you take me for? ;) [22:22] <StarFalcon> why is that the girls on the net that could be taken advantage of when drunk are the ones that never have a scanner or polaroid camera? ;) [22:22] <Starscream> lol [22:22] <MegaBlue> internet access to amazon.com and eBay, plus food at your fingertips [22:22] <Starscream> Sounds like fun. [22:22] <MegaBlue> SF: 'cause they thought ahead :) [22:22] <QT> Jase: nah i'm either marrying Mandy or Kirsten... [22:22] <MegaBlue> you can't get either if you're in jail... Bubba's your husband [22:22] <StarFalcon> .... [22:23] <Mitsou> is the gay sex the main reason people want to stay out of prison? [22:23] <QT> Kirsten will get arrested and come to jail with me.. [22:23] <Donte> Mits: hell yes [22:23] <Mitsou> I mean, if that weren't a factor, would prison be that bad? [22:23] * Mitsou wonders if that means gay people are more likely to commit crimes [22:23] <StarFalcon> Mits thats the problem with the prison system, its /not/ that bad. :P [22:24] * SP-Drudge nods [22:24] <Mitsou> you want people to be tortured, SF? [22:24] <StarFalcon> ofcourse not [22:24] <Mitsou> then...? [22:25] <StarFalcon> but criminals need more than just a slap on the back of the hand and a stern scolding that they get now. [22:25] <Mitsou> what do you want then, I'm asking seriously? [22:25] <Rap> i'm all for flogging [22:25] <SP-Drudge> Mits: What's wrong with torturing murderers and rapists who don't get the death sentence? [22:25] <Rap> and i mean that [22:26] <MegaBlue> caning... and the "make the accused stand out in the towne square" thing of the past [22:26] <Rap> think people would steal if it meant ten lashes in public? [22:26] <SP-Drudge> I agree with Rap... to quote paraphrase Seamus Hrper on prisons.. [22:26] *** Donte (dontef@ts024d37.chi-il.concentric.net) Quit (Ping timeout ) [22:26] <Mitsou> SP: I believe the state should not inflict violence on its citizens [22:26] <SP-Drudge> "Hey, you look like you could be a good criminal, we'll throw you in prison and show you how it's done." [22:26] <SP-Drudge> Mits: Who then? Or should rapists and murderers be set free? [22:26] *** Donte (dontef@ts010d48.chi-il.concentric.net) has joined #alt-mmpr [22:27] <Mitsou> SP: I think the idea of exile has merit [22:27] <Brent> night folks.. happy new year [22:27] <Rap> mits - frankly thats not realistic [22:27] <SP-Drudge> Happy New Year, Brent. [22:27] <Mitsou> night Brent [22:27] <SP-Drudge> Mits: To where? [22:27] <SP-Drudge> I mean, if you can find a place, great, but where? [22:27] * SP-Drudge is all for a colony to breed worse criminals. [22:27] <Rap> and how long befre its too crowded? [22:28] <Mitsou> there are plenty of uninhabited or lightly inhabited poalces to send them [22:28] *** Brent (brent@59cce982.dc-t.9beecd20.net.hmsk) Quit (Quit: Leaving ) [22:28] <Rap> and what if their sentence is up? [22:28] <SP-Drudge> Mits: Name one. [22:28] <Mitsou> you would only exile people who you didn't want back, ever [22:28] <SP-Drudge> At what level to we exile people? [22:28] <StarFalcon> Mits, exile doesn't work [22:28] <SP-Drudge> Is raping a child enough? [22:28] <SP-Drudge> Raping a woman? Killing a person? [22:29] <Rap> and what if one prisoner in exile violataes another thereby causunbg the state in absentia to harm the injured prisioner by exiling him in the first place? [22:29] <Mitsou> SP: large areas of Alaska, Canada, islands, antarctica [22:29] <SP-Drudge> Mits: A land-locked area?! [22:29] <SP-Drudge> HAHAHAHAA [22:29] <SP-Drudge> That's like saying "Okay, Mitnick, you can only use Netscape." [22:29] <SP-Drudge> Please. [22:30] * Mitsou ultimately doesn't think there should be governments so is only talking about a better solution thant execution and torture, not an ideal solution [22:30] <Donte> Mitnick? [22:30] <Mitsou> Kevin Mitnick, hacker dood [22:30] <SP-Drudge> Kevin Mitnick (Mitnik). [22:30] <Donte> ohhh [22:30] <Rap> so its better to let prisoners run wild in some exile camp where they can rape and torture each other? [22:31] <SP-Drudge> Mits: I'll agree with you (on a limited basis) about Governments, BUT what do you think should be done for criminals? [22:31] <StarFalcon> Umm Mits, the modern world would cease to exist in anarchy. [22:31] <Donte> they already rape and torture each other in prison, rap, so what's the difference? [22:31] <SP-Drudge> I mean, should we just ASK serial killers not to kill people? [22:31] <Mitsou> yes SF, the current world would cease and a better one would arrise [22:32] <Donte> I doubt it [22:32] * StarFalcon laughs at Mits [22:32] <SP-Drudge> Rap: A land-locked camp. The killers and rapists will apparently be trusted not to escape. [22:32] <Rap> donte - my point is that if we have a governet sentencing people to exile, its basically the ame thing [22:32] <StarFalcon> Not even close Mitsou [22:32] <SP-Drudge> Just like Napolean stayed on Elba... OH WAIT! [22:32] <Donte> People would go crazy if there was no government [22:32] * Mitsou really shouuldn't try to make this arguement while inebriated.. :) [22:32] <SP-Drudge> Mits: Shouldn't chat while drunk, but I'm not letting you excuse yourself. YOU started it, YOU will finish it. [22:33] <Mitsou> which track should I finish? [22:33] <SP-Drudge> tak you time, drunkard [22:33] * Mitsou tries to draw a comparison for Donte.... [22:33] <Mitsou> do you believe you should be in your parents care the rest of your life? [22:33] <Donte> No... [22:34] <Mitsou> there was a time at one point in which your parents let you make choices, and take care of yourself...it might have been scary, but after practice you got better at it and enjoyed it, right? [22:34] * SP-Drudge snickers [22:35] <Donte> Yeah, I guess [22:35] <Mitsou> it's very much the same with governments...people are thinking like 8 year olds who haven't had their parents leave thme in charge...without the governments of the world taking care of people, we will learn to take care of ourselves and live better, more rewarding lives [22:36] <StarFalcon> Mitsou it doesn't matter if you were sober, anarchy is an idiotic idea. And I got news you Mits, someone like you would be dead in an instant if the world reverted to anarchy. You would be raped and killed in no time. Remember, anarchy means no laws, no laws mean anyone can do whatever the hell they feel like, and I hate to admit it, but the mahority of the human race doesn't do a lot things /only/ because its illegal, not because they p [22:36] <StarFalcon> believe its wrong [22:36] <Donte> Do you really believe that, Mits? [22:36] * SP-Drudge laughs at Mitsou! [22:36] <Mitsou> yes, I really do Donte [22:36] <SP-Drudge> Have you EVER heard of the third law of thermo dynamics? [22:36] <Mitsou> SF: anarchy doesn't mean Mad Max [22:36] <Donte> People would rape, pillage, and pluder without a government to 'take care' of us [22:36] <SP-Drudge> (err, thermo-dynamics) [22:37] <StarFalcon> Mitsou, yes, it does [22:37] <Mitsou> so without a beurocrat to tell you not to rape, you'fd be a rapist? [22:37] <Donte> Some people WOULD [22:37] <Mitsou> no, not some people...you [22:37] *** SuicideUnit3351 (jupit69774@5badad66.houston.14056255.com.hmsk) has joined #alt-mmpr [22:37] <StarFalcon> me? no, but a lot of people would [22:37] <Donte> not me personally, but quite a few people would [22:37] <Mitsou> why wouldn't you? [22:37] <SuicideUnit3351> Mitsi!!! [22:37] <MegaBlue> hey Sui [22:37] <Mitsou> hi SU [22:37] <Donte> Because I don't believe in it [22:37] <SuicideUnit3351> Whatsup :) [22:38] <Donte> But not a lot of people have the same ideals, mits [22:38] <SP-Drudge> Mits: If the inherent goodness of people would prevail, then why are their so many corrupt governments? [22:38] <SP-Drudge> SU: Mitsou's blood/alchohol levels. [22:38] <Donte> What do you think the KKK would do without a government?? [22:38] <SuicideUnit3351> hehehe [22:38] <SuicideUnit3351> so are mine :) [22:38] <Mitsou> SP: there will always be currupt people, but I prefer not to hand them the power to run my life [22:38] <Donte> commence the lynching [22:38] * SuicideUnit3351 is stuck home for new years [22:38] <SP-Drudge> Mitsou: But you don't mind letting them run wild with no law to even curb their behaviours? *** 20 seconds lost 'cause I switched the dates to start PSP. Sorry! *** [22:39] <Donte> Mits: Yes! [22:39] <StarFalcon> Mits, you just don't get it. socity is formed on rules governing behavior, without these rules we would be no better than animals, literly [22:39] <Mitsou> I reject the idea that they would "run wild" [22:39] <SuicideUnit3351> depends on which aspect of your personality leans towards good or evil [22:39] <Rap> mits -they would just start killing blacks tho [22:39] <Mitsou> SF: people would still expect certain things of others they interracted with [22:40] *** QT (prince@209-193-14-194-dial-ha1.sol.acsalaska.net) Quit (Ping timeout ) 22:40] <Donte> All of the hate groups would no longer have the government looking over their shoulders. They would start killing people and getting away with it [22:40] <StarFalcon> Mits, thats BS [22:40] <SP-Drudge> Mits: Please do... like I told Jewel, I'll just laugh at your ignorance. [22:40] <StarFalcon> for one anarchy wouldn't last [22:40] <StarFalcon> People crave power [22:41] * SuicideUnit3351 has to agree with Mits [22:41] <SP-Drudge> SF: Not to mention the fact that humans are social creatures! It's why we have families beyond mom, dad, and kids. [22:41] <SuicideUnit3351> everyone has checks and balances withing themselves [22:41] <Mitsou> SP: I think that is a very small minded attitude, I hope someday when you try to explain your world view I'll have a little more respect for you than you do for me [22:41] <SP-Drudge> SU: Everyone? [22:41] * SuicideUnit3351 nods [22:41] <SuicideUnit3351> except if they have some disorder that causes them to go wild [22:41] <StarFalcon> how do you think monarchys got started? They start out as criminals that band together to gain control of an area/ [22:41] * Rap is dining upon lobster and shrimp btw [22:41] <Donte> I really don't get how you can not see that the world would go wild without government [22:42] <SP-Drudge> Mits: Not small minded of me. I listened to you. I respet your view as your view. I just don't have to agree with it. Disagreeing, and NOT forcing you to change, DOES NOT make me small minded. [22:42] <Donte> I'm sorry to say, but MOST people in this world are NOT inherently good [22:42] <StarFalcon> the bosses of these bands become land barons, and the most powerful of the barons rises up and becomes a king [22:43] <SuicideUnit3351> I actually believe most people are good [22:43] <SuicideUnit3351> but you don't hear about the good in people [22:43] <SuicideUnit3351> only the evil [22:43] <Mitsou> accusing me of ignorance seems rather small-minded...rather than considering that I may have given this much thought and consideration and just drawn a different conclusion, you write off my ideas as ignorant SP [22:44] * SuicideUnit3351 nods in agreement [22:44] <SuicideUnit3351> everyone has there own views of society and the world [22:44] <SuicideUnit3351> to consider one ignorant because they don't share the same ideals is in itself ignorant [22:45] <Rap> well, mits how do youthink anarch would work? keeping in mind thattraditionally anarchy is not um...workable [22:45] *** QT (prince@209-193-14-15-dial-ha1.sol.acsalaska.net) has joined #Alt-MMPR [22:45] * Starscream will BBL. [22:45] <SP-Drudge> Mits: Okay, to save myself, I'll ask: Explain your theory. Give my your whole view. I won't interrupt. I want to hear it all. [22:45] *** Starscream (snocross@234-pm2.sol.alaska.net) Quit (Quit: Happy New Year! ) [22:46] <StarFalcon> Mitsou, I'm going to be blunt with you, I don't mean to be offensive, but. You -are- very ignorant in a lot of things because you refuse to look beyond your own life and experiences and you judge things and people with out any real knowledge. [22:46] <Mitsou> Rap: I believe it would work in much the same way a pickup game of ball works...people get together and play becuase it benefits all of them..they understand the rules, or make them up as they go along, but don't have an authority telling them how to play [22:47] <Rap> but the pick up game always evolves into a league or collapses as soon as te game is done [22:47] <Mitsou> exactly...that;s the way human interactions are rap [22:48] <Donte> But what about all of the hate groups, the KKK, etc? [22:48] <Rap> so they would either forma government (make a league which defeats the notion of anarcy) or they would remain chaotic and there would be no organization at all [22:48] <SuicideUnit3351> Hate doesn't exist DOnte [22:48] <SuicideUnit3351> I don't belive hate groups exist [22:48] * QT hops off as his aussie friend is going to start teachign him QBasic [22:48] * SP-Drudge waits for Mits to explain and educate him. [22:48] <Donte> what the heck do you think the KKK is, then, Su? [22:48] <SuicideUnit3351> to others they are considered hate groups because they don't share the same ideas or thoughts [22:49] <Mitsou> Rap: it would be voluntary associations based on shared interests, not governments imposing their will on tohers [22:49] <Donte> Oh, so kthe KK is just misunderstood??!! [22:49] <SuperFireCamron> SU... I live in a state filled by the KKK... they are a hate groupe. [22:49] <SuicideUnit3351> Yes exactly [22:49] <Donte> Why didn't I see it before? Blacks and Jews as lesser beings? of course they were misunderstood :/ [22:49] <SuicideUnit3351> You see Donte [22:50] <SuicideUnit3351> You don't seem to wanna accept that other people think diffrently from you [22:50] <Donte> my god you are ignorant if you believe that [22:50] <Donte> They are a HATE group [22:50] <Mitsou> like stock markets....they don't need a government authority o work and they don't attempt to go out and set speed limits or tell members how many wives they can have or things like that [22:50] <SuicideUnit3351> to people that join the kkk or nazi's ect they are just trying to do whats good for themselves [22:50] <StarFalcon> Mits, the analogy is flawed though Mits, because the people who are in pick up games -want- to play, there for they limit them selves to the rules that the group set forth. [22:50] <SuicideUnit3351> at least they think that [22:51] <Donte> And it's WRONG to think that [22:51] <Mitsou> right SF, I'm talking about situations where people want to play, like markets [22:51] <SuperFireCamron> So? its still hate that drives these emotions SU... [22:51] <SuicideUnit3351> no [22:51] <SuicideUnit3351> to them its self preservation [22:51] <SuicideUnit3351> to others its hate [22:51] <SuicideUnit3351> everyone has diffrent ideas of what hate is [22:51] <Donte> Well they're morons [22:51] <SuicideUnit3351> you hate them correct cam, donte? [22:51] <StarFalcon> Mits, the problem is, without laws and people to inforce them, those who don't want to play by the rules will gain power over others [22:51] <SuperFireCamron> I don't hate the KKK... I hate what they do. [22:52] <SuicideUnit3351> Ok so you hate their ideas [22:52] <Donte> yes [22:52] <SuicideUnit3351> thefore you yourself on in the same catagory [22:52] <SuperFireCamron> No.. I hate their actions. [22:52] *** Imogene_Maxwell is now known as Mariemeia [22:52] <SuicideUnit3351> what actions? [22:52] <Donte> killing! [22:52] <SuicideUnit3351> I have yet to see the kkk do anything active in the last 30 years? [22:52] <SuperFireCamron> So SU.. your saying its okay to go around killing people because there diffrent? [22:52] <Donte> They've killed hundreds of blacks and jews [22:52] <SuicideUnit3351> When? [22:52] <SuicideUnit3351> 30 or 40 years ago? [22:53] <SuperFireCamron> SU... We had the kkk do a few killings just last month. [22:53] <Donte> yes [22:53] <Mitsou> SF: as opposed to the people who gain power over others today? [22:53] <SuicideUnit3351> well that was then [22:53] <SuicideUnit3351> if you hate someone because of what they did [22:53] <Donte> and What about that man that got drug from the back of a truck in texas? [22:53] <StarFalcon> Mits, theres a big difference [22:53] <SuicideUnit3351> then your in the same boat as they are [22:53] <SuicideUnit3351> Donte [22:53] <SP-Drudge> Mits: Let me recant... [22:53] <SuicideUnit3351> that killed was killed by a buncha teenagers [22:53] <SuicideUnit3351> not kkk memebers :\ [22:53] <SuperFireCamron> So your saying its perfectly okay for them to kill? [22:53] * Mitsou thinks it is funny that one of the biggest arguements against doing away with oppresive governments is that over time, new oppressive governments will replace them [22:53] <SuicideUnit3351> get your facts stright [22:54] <SuicideUnit3351> No I'm saying its perfectly okay for them to express their ideas [22:54] <SuicideUnit3351> just like you are doing right now cam and donte [22:54] <SuicideUnit3351> Donte says he hates them [22:54] <Donte> I don't believe in killing people, though! [22:54] <SuicideUnit3351> so your commiting a hate crime donte [22:54] <SuperFireCamron> Yes, but I'm not beating people up or shooting them to express my ideas. [22:54] <Donte> I don't believe that anyone's lower than myself [22:54] <SuicideUnit3351> they arn't doing that anymore eithe [22:55] <StarFalcon> Mits, a goverment official can't kick you out of your house because he likes it and wants it fore his own. In anarchy thats exactly the kind of thing that will happen [22:55] <Donte> Yes they are [22:55] <SuicideUnit3351> you just said you hated them Donte [22:55] <StarFalcon> the strong will prey on the weak [22:55] <Mitsou> SF: umm...have you heard of emminant domain? [22:55] <Donte> Just because you don't hear about the KKK doing it doesn't mean they aren't doing it [22:55] <SuicideUnit3351> Now thats ignorant Donte [22:55] <SuperFireCamron> SU... I suggest you move to the south. [22:55] <SuicideUnit3351> I am in the south [22:55] <SuicideUnit3351> I live in Texas [22:55] <SP-Drudge> Mits: Anarchy would work well if everyone was a gazelle. Gazelle have no written rules, and they live quite well. However, humans are not only Gazelles, but often they are Wolves. Laws exsist because Gazelles, even as a whole often, cannot protect themselves against a Wolf. I persoanlly think small government is good, but ultimately I think there must be a series of checks and balances because not everyone is a Gazelle. Does that make an [22:56] <Donte> Su: You honestly believe the KKK hasn't killed anyone lately? [22:56] <SuicideUnit3351> I know they havn't [22:56] <Mitsou> SP: why do those checks and balances need to be governmental? [22:56] <SuperFireCamron> SU... Now your being ignorent. [22:56] <SuicideUnit3351> Unlike you Donte and Cam, I keep my facts stright [22:56] <Donte> whatever [22:56] <SuicideUnit3351> you need to read a lil more before you try and argue with me [22:56] <SuperFireCamron> Mits.. even wolves have a sense of government [22:56] <Donte> You're ignorant then [22:57] <SP-Drudge> Mits: Name another body that could do it? [22:57] <SuicideUnit3351> Ok Donte, I'm ignorant and your a genius :\ [22:57] <SP-Drudge> Mits: And I define "governemnt" as "an agreed upon body of rule" [22:57] *** Jewel_Noxenet (Eternal@dialup-64.156.96.17.Orlando1.Level3.net) has joined #alt-mmpr [22:57] <SuicideUnit3351> Hey Jen ^_^ [22:57] <SP-Drudge> ...be it a business or a rotary club. [22:57] <Mitsou> SP: If most people dislike thieves...and you are a known theif, people will stop doing business with you, stop dating you, etc...that could be a detterent [22:57] <Rap> evn cavemen had governement [22:57] <Jewel_Noxenet> Hey Sui ^_^ [22:58] <SuicideUnit3351> whats kicking? [22:58] <StarFalcon> Mits, no it won't, most thieves are social outcasts as is, even if they aren't know thieves [22:59] <Rap> traditonall the thieves formed bands and made their own soceieties [22:59] <Rap> called thieves guilds [22:59] * Jewel_Noxenet runs while she still can ;) [22:59] <Rap> with rules [22:59] <SP-Drudge> Mits: Let's work with that... [22:59] *** Jewel_Noxenet (Eternal@dialup-64.156.96.17.Orlando1.Level3.net) has left #alt-mmpr [22:59] <Mitsou> SF: has your beloved government stopped crime or even meaingfully reduced it from what it was in the era before governments? [22:59] <StarFalcon> Mits, yes, it has [23:00] <SuperFireCamron> Then whats your suggestoion Mits? [23:00] <SP-Drudge> No government means no communication because there are no bodies large enough to agree upon similar protocols... [23:00] <Mitsou> doyou have any evidence of that, SF? [23:00] <Rap> mits - unfiar copairson.. you asking him to pull stats from a time period that is unwritten about as the only time human society lived without governments wa sbefore writing began [23:00] <SP-Drudge> If a thief is hated in Location A, he just moved to Location B and continues. [23:00] <Mitsou> SP: so we wouldn't be watching VHS tapes without a government decision...oh wait that was a market decision, wasn't it? [23:01] <Rap> more of a market response mits :) [23:01] <Rap> much the way dvds are overtaking vhs [23:01] <SP-Drudge> Mits: We'd watch VHS, but we couldn't share them because there would be no post office, highway commision, TCP/IP, etc. [23:01] <StarFalcon> actually you're right Mits, goverment hasn't stopped crime, infact it created it. no laws, no crime, no stopping people from doing whatever they want... which is basicly what anarchy always comes back to [23:01] <SP-Drudge> Markets define standards, yes. But free Governments allow them to be made. [23:01] <Mitsou> UPS and Fed Ex are government agencies? [23:01] <MegaBlue> FedEx, I thought, was [23:01] <SP-Drudge> Highways are maintained by the government. [23:02] <SuicideUnit3351> not anymore ^_^ [23:02] <MegaBlue> Federal Express being its true name and all... [23:02] <SP-Drudge> Since when does UPS travel by Off-road vehicle [23:02] <SuicideUnit3351> they are maintained by us [23:02] <Mitsou> private highways and airports are really that unthinkable? [23:02] <SP-Drudge> Mits: payed for by who? [23:02] <StarFalcon> yes [23:02] <Rap> mits - private hospitals stil get governemtn subsiies [23:02] <MegaBlue> SU: ahh [23:02] <Mitsou> the fact is, in many states governments contract to private companies to maintain their highways [23:02] <Mitsou> paid for by users [23:02] <SP-Drudge> who funds private companoes? state what??? [23:02] <SuicideUnit3351> we pay the taxes and tolls to use em and keep em up [23:02] <Rap> point -t the "state" is contracting [23:03] <Mitsou> Rap: because the government has an interest in helping poor people, but purely private hospitals would work perfectly [23:03] <SP-Drudge> Mits: My point is, there ultimately has to be a ruling body. [23:03] <SP-Drudge> It's not perfect, no, but neither are people. [23:03] <Rap> who runs the private hospital? [23:03] <Mitsou> the owners of it [23:03] <Mitsou> shareholders, or an entrepreneur [23:03] <SuicideUnit3351> I think the androids need to rule over us..Docha Mits? [23:03] <SP-Drudge> Rap: More to the point, who makes the standards for the doctors who ru the hospital. [23:03] <SuperFireCamron> Mits if no government works? Why isn't there a country without one. [23:03] <Mitsou> the market makes the standards [23:04] <SP-Drudge> Mits: Banking in the 1800's was VERY individualized. Remind me how well that went, please. [23:04] <SuicideUnit3351> err doncha agree mits :) [23:04] <Rap> who decides what makes a doctor? [23:04] *** Thena (alize@1Cust102.tnt83.chi5.da.uu.net) has joined #alt-mmpr [23:04] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Thena [23:04] <Mitsou> Cam: because people are subserviant and slavish...but I believe that is changing...we are evolving and becoming more aware of our own potential [23:04] <Mitsou> hi Thena [23:04] <MegaBlue> hey Thena [23:04] <Mitsou> Rap: the matrket [23:04] <Rap> after all with no rules,i could just call myslf one and if you idn't like my work, oh fucking well, you couldn't do a thing [23:05] <SP-Drudge> Mits: banking... 1800's... how well did it go? [23:05] <SuicideUnit3351> we in diffrent societies doctors are everything from witch doctors with herbal cures to brain surgeons [23:05] <SuicideUnit3351> bad example Rap :\ [23:05] <Rap> how so? [23:05] <Mitsou> SP: banking was a derivative of government functions, not a great example [23:05] <Rap> if i as your doctor fuck up in a society that is in anarchy...what do you do? [23:05] <Rap> kill me? [23:05] <SP-Drudge> Mits: My point was that non-standard banking was a bad thing. [23:05] <SuicideUnit3351> hmm [23:06] <SuicideUnit3351> no [23:06] <Rap> haul me into court? (but there are no courts) [23:06] <SuicideUnit3351> but I will demand free service :) [23:06] <Thena> ahhh... another typical #alt discussion [23:06] <SP-Drudge> You need a large body to create standards. be it business or "governemnt". [23:06] <Rap> thena -tis not half bad actually [23:06] <Mitsou> SP: and you don't think standards would have evolved without governments? that a buusiness like banking would chose inefficiency? [23:06] <SP-Drudge> There is NO way to have a functioning society with anarchy. [23:06] <SP-Drudge> Mitsou: It was chaos! [23:06] * SuicideUnit3351 wants the androids to rule over us instead of us ruling over them [23:07] <SP-Drudge> Mits: You believe in eolution? [23:07] <SP-Drudge> err, evolution? [23:07] <Mitsou> SP: consider that statement carefully...there are interractions that go on all the time in the absence of governing rules and people do just fine [23:07] <SP-Drudge> SU: I'll agree with you there. [23:07] <Rap> i belive in eolution :) [23:07] <Mitsou> SP: yes, I do :) [23:07] <SP-Drudge> Mits: I acknowledge that, but there is ALWAYS a large body maintaining order. [23:08] <SP-Drudge> Mits: Evolution is orderly, it's not chaotic. [23:08] <SuicideUnit3351> Yeah, even though we fucked up and made the androids weaker then us :\ [23:08] <Mitsou> evolution is chaotic...it is reactive to unpredictable events [23:08] <SP-Drudge> No... [23:08] <SP-Drudge> it follows a central rule: "survival of the fittest." [23:08] <SuicideUnit3351> shes right..evilution is chaotic [23:09] <Mitsou> not always...sometimes it is survival of the luckiest [23:09] <SuicideUnit3351> err evolution ^_^ [23:09] <SP-Drudge> You're saying that the process that created life forms was chaotic? [23:09] <SuicideUnit3351> or the most cunning [23:09] <SuicideUnit3351> yep [23:09] <Mitsou> yes, I am SP [23:09] <SuicideUnit3351> we are probally a accident SP [23:10] <SP-Drudge> SU: You work with computers everyday! How can you say a working system is chaotic? [23:10] <SP-Drudge> You don't just throw parts together and play Street Fighter II... [23:10] *** zj (no@14055a59.14055b35.207.231.imsk) has joined #alt-mmpr [23:10] <MegaBlue> heya zj :) Happy 2001! [23:10] <SP-Drudge> And those are simple compared to the human machine. [23:10] <zj> hello people [23:10] <SuicideUnit3351> computers stick to logic man [23:10] <SuicideUnit3351> not evolution :) [23:10] <zj> i have returned [23:10] <SP-Drudge> Yes it does. [23:10] <SuicideUnit3351> we were probally a accident [23:11] <SuicideUnit3351> i mean [23:11] <SP-Drudge> You said it yourself: cunning. Those who practice logic survive. [23:11] <SuicideUnit3351> we evolved from apes [23:11] <zj> hey blue! [23:11] * Rap is waiting for the monolithon the moon to start sending us signals [23:11] <Mitsou> are you "the" zj? from years ago? [23:11] <zj> hell yeah [23:11] <zj> the one and only [23:11] <Thena> oh my... [23:11] <zj> its shame i don't do the whole website thing [23:11] <SP-Drudge> SU: But not random apes, the smart apes. That is orderly. [23:11] <SuicideUnit3351> the thing that was supposed to kill us died off some how.. [23:11] * Thena faints from shock [23:11] <zj> or the whole yahoo e-mail thing [23:11] <zj> or the geocities thing [23:11] * Mitsou should go find her classic quotes file... [23:12] <zj> it turns out some bad ass hackers got in my shit over the summer and fucked it all up so i just abandonded it [23:12] <SP-Drudge> So life is random, life means nothing, everything is an accident? [23:12] *** AmandaB (sbolton@pix142166199081.nbtel.net) has joined #alt-mmpr [23:12] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o AmandaB [23:12] <SuicideUnit3351> life is very random [23:12] <zj> MANDA! [23:12] <Donte> Life is not random, Life has a purpose [23:12] <AmandaB> hita [23:12] <zj> Manda, hey, did i ever tell you what happened to me over the summer??? [23:12] <AmandaB> hiya too [23:12] <Rap> the msrat apes survive [23:12] <AmandaB> zj: uhhmm... don't know [23:12] <Rap> and learned to type [23:12] <Mitsou> SP: you prefer to believe you are a special chosen child being sheparded to your destiny or something like that? [23:12] * AmandaB is in 2001. [23:12] <Rap> and soon we'll sen a ship tot the future... [23:12] <zj> manda, i just said in the channel, it turns out some hackers got into my yahoo/geocities stuff over the summer and i abandoned them [23:13] <zj> that does include the homepage i had at geocites [23:13] <SP-Drudge> Mits: No, but I prefer to believe life is not a series of accidents, but a rather complex machine. [23:13] <zj> that nice little one that i had for a few years [23:13] <Rap> and discover that eartyh was destroyed in a war... and the real apes hvae taken over [23:13] <AmandaB> Rov says hi from the 3rd millenium [23:13] * SP-Drudge can't explain his Universal Gearbox theory in a chat. [23:13] <Rap> wait...where does jesus fall in this? [23:13] <Rap> hey rov :) [23:13] <AmandaB> zj: yuck [23:13] <Mitsou> so you do your part and try not to upset the working of the machine...something like that, SP? [23:13] <zj> Rov?? [23:13] <Mitsou> but you expect me to explain anarchy in a chat??? [23:13] * Mitsou giggles at SP [23:13] *** AmandaB is now known as Manda-n-Rov [23:14] <SP-Drudge> Mits: I can explain it if you want me to. [23:14] <Manda-n-Rov> zj: yes, rovang. [23:14] <SP-Drudge> I'll try anyway. [23:14] <zj> where?! [23:14] <zj> oh dude [23:14] <Mitsou> please do, I'm curious [23:14] <SP-Drudge> It's quite abstract since I can only guess... okay... [23:14] <zj> is he still in college? [23:14] <zj> I am in college now [23:14] <zj> Community College [23:14] <zj> $53 a credit [23:14] <Manda-n-Rov> zj: good for you, and no he's not. [23:15] <zj> and two years there = two years of good cheep education that works towards a 4 year degree [23:15] <Manda-n-Rov> zj: I know the feeling. I'm going to a local university to save money. [23:15] <zj> yep, local university = community college [23:16] <zj> how much a credit for you manda? [23:16] <Manda-n-Rov> what credit do you mean? [23:16] <zj> cost per credit? [23:16] <Manda-n-Rov> and community college in canada is different. [23:16] <Manda-n-Rov> uhhmm... no idea. but I live at home and save a lot that way. [23:16] <Rap> manda-and-rov have you two hgotten pregnant yet? [23:16] *** DrMM (mj21723@cras72p86.navix.net) has joined #alt-mmpr [23:16] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o DrMM [23:16] <SP-Drudge> I think the universe is very, very orderly. The laws of physics and math give us rules to follow just like a computer's Kernel gives programs rules to follow. I don't know the interworkings of it or the purpose... However, from cellular respiration to the stars, I see subroutines running just as they do in programs. [23:17] *** AmandaB (sbolton@pix142166196027.nbtel.net) has joined #alt-mmpr [23:17] <Manda-n-Rov> rap: you already know the answer to that. [23:17] <Manda-n-Rov> hey drmm [23:17] <AmandaB> Raar [23:17] <SP-Drudge> How do people fit in? [23:17] * Manda-n-Rov looks at herself. "...Hi?" [23:17] *** AmandaB is now known as Rovang [23:17] <Rap> so its a girl or a boy? ":) [23:17] *** Manda-n-Rov is now known as AmandaB [23:17] <DrMM> hey :) [23:17] <Rovang> Hey guys [23:17] <zj> DOC! [23:17] <AmandaB> rap: it's a power ranger. [23:17] <zj> Manda, what color? [23:18] *** AmandaB sets mode: +o Rovang [23:18] <Rovang> Ahh [23:18] <AmandaB> blue of course. [23:18] <zj> cool [23:18] <zj> so, has everyone finally given up on the David Yost comeback thing? [23:18] <SP-Drudge> People, I think, are a program, parts of a program anyway. The way they interact (governments, economies, daily schedules) are just like gears. One can't turn without another turning, just like an orbit can't exsist without gravity and momentum. [23:19] <SP-Drudge> So, ultimately, it's all to orderly for everything just to be random. It all fits together to well and hans funtioned too long for it just to be. I think the computer is a giant computer. That's my theory in a nutshell. [23:19] <SP-Drudge> You asked, and there it is. [23:19] <SuicideUnit3351> but orbits degrade sp [23:19] <SuicideUnit3351> even now [23:19] <zj> wow, its quiet in here [23:19] <SuicideUnit3351> those sattalites up there are gonna come crashing down sooner or later [23:20] <Donte> makes sense [23:20] <SP-Drudge> SU: it's like a time, counting down every loop. [23:20] <Mitsou> it's an interesting theory SP...one that makes things like free will pointles, and so one I personally reject, but it does seem well thought out [23:20] <zj> is me being here random?? [23:20] <SP-Drudge> Mitsou: It doesn't make free will pointless! [23:20] <SuicideUnit3351> SP time doesn't exist except within ourselves [23:20] <Mitsou> SP: it makes it an illusiokn [23:21] <AmandaB> sp is an imaginary friend [23:21] <SP-Drudge> That's the entire point. The free will it what ultimately gives the answer. It's part of the function. [23:21] <zj> did I see the word pregnate up on the screen before?? [23:21] *** Selenay (chibirei@216.80.231.248) has joined #alt-mmpr [23:21] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Selenay [23:21] <AmandaB> hey sel [23:21] <AmandaB> zj: yes, as a joke. [23:21] <zj> oh ok [23:21] <Selenay> 'lo =) [23:21] * DrMM flyingtacklehugs Selenay [23:21] <SP-Drudge> SU: Time doesn't exsist in a computer but in a variable state. [23:21] <Mitsou> but by your arguement SP all things that appear to be free will are preprogrammed sunroutines simply executing in their proper time [23:21] <Thena> get your mind out of the gutter, zj [23:22] <Mitsou> hi Sel :) [23:22] <Thena> it's quite crowded in there already [23:22] <SuicideUnit3351> we made time ^_^ [23:22] <Selenay> oof. [23:22] <SuicideUnit3351> when we are gone [23:22] <zj> but i am a man damnit i can't help it [23:22] <SuicideUnit3351> time will dissapper too :) [23:22] <SuperFireCamron> Hey aManda. [23:22] <AmandaB> heya cam [23:22] * Rovang wanders out. Nice seeing you all, bbl [23:22] *** Rovang (sbolton@pix142166196027.nbtel.net) Quit (Quit: Rovang ) [23:22] <SP-Drudge> Mitsou: NO. Look at artificial intelligence and people who are working on self-aware systems. If they create AI, it means freewill can be programmed. [23:22] * AmandaB wanders after Rovang. [23:22] *** AmandaB (sbolton@pix142166199081.nbtel.net) Quit (Quit: Don't Worry, Be Happy! ) [23:23] <SP-Drudge> SU: How does my theory make time non-existant? [23:23] <zj> why did they leave? [23:23] <SuicideUnit3351> AI can't exist [23:23] <zj> its my first few mins back in years and they take off! [23:23] <SuicideUnit3351> we thought up time [23:23] <SuicideUnit3351> it wasn't already here [23:23] <SuicideUnit3351> when we die [23:24] <SuicideUnit3351> so will time [23:24] <SP-Drudge> oh... [23:24] <SP-Drudge> well, by that argument (which I agree with) inches don't exist either. [23:24] <Rap> personally i don't think AI's are possible [23:24] <SP-Drudge> It's all perception. [23:24] * SuicideUnit3351 agrees [23:24] <SuicideUnit3351> a buncha programmed code LOL [23:24] <zj> Aren't AI's just programs designed to mimic human behavior?? [23:24] * Selenay tunes out her mom's bitching [23:25] <SP-Drudge> Rap: I am hopeful, but ultimately agree with you. [23:25] <SuicideUnit3351> no AI is supposed to mean free will [23:25] * Mitsou finds some of her favorite quotes to remind everyone who zj is... [23:25] <Mitsou> <zj> if it wasn't for cowboys we would still be in england without the power rangers probbly in some war or something with germany [23:25] <SuicideUnit3351> ROFLMAO [23:25] <zj> what? [23:25] <zj> how many years ago did I say taht? [23:25] <MegaBlue> hehehe [23:25] <zj> cuz i don't remember [23:25] <Mitsou> <zj> clf, who the heck would rape an indain girl? <zj> i mean wahts the point of they can't scream your name in your language? [23:25] *** RedDragon (RedDragon@ACA61CAA.ipt.aol.com) has joined #alt-mmpr [23:25] <SuicideUnit3351> What the fuck? [23:26] <SP-Drudge> Mitsou: Your turn. I explained my theory. Now explain yours or recant calling me ignorant for a mere off-hand remark. [23:26] <zj> i remember that one! [23:26] <zj> wow [23:26] * SuicideUnit3351 slaps zj around a bit with a large trout [23:26] <zj> that was a long time ago [23:26] <Mitsou> about 3 years ago [23:26] <MegaBlue> haha... [23:26] <MegaBlue> hey Red [23:26] * zj slaps SuicideUnit3351 around a bit with a large trout [23:26] <zj> I had all of these cool popups [23:26] <zj> but i just re-downloaded M-irc just now [23:26] * SuicideUnit3351 kicks zj's ass from here to the nearest indian reservation [23:27] <Mitsou> SP: I never called you ignorant...I said you were being small minded for calling me ignorant ;) [23:27] *** SuicideUnit3351 (jupit69774@5badad66.houston.14056255.com.hmsk) Quit (Quit: Leaving ) [23:27] <SP-Drudge> recant calling me that then [23:27] <SP-Drudge> or explain your theory. [23:27] <zj> what is up with that suicide guy? [23:28] *** RedDragon (RedDragon@ACA61CAA.ipt.aol.com) Quit (Quit: RedDragon ) [23:28] <Donte> dunno [23:28] <Mitsou> SP: which theory? [23:28] <SuperFireCamron> I don't know.. he was saying there is no such thing as hate groups earlier. [23:28] <Donte> yeah [23:28] <Thena> zj: offhand, I'd say that the quote attributed to you offended him [23:28] <SP-Drudge> Mits: Anarchy. [23:28] <zj> he should not take the rantings of a crazyed 16 year old kid to heart like that [23:28] <Mitsou> you want me to counter your theory of the universe as a giant mechanical, orderly, predestined machine? [23:29] <SP-Drudge> no. [23:29] <Mitsou> oh...I thought I had thouroughly explained that...as thouroughly as possible in this forum [23:29] <SP-Drudge> I just want to hear your theory of anarchy. [23:29] <zj> i'm still crazed, just i'm 19 now, and not so dumb and close-minded and hormone driven [23:29] <SP-Drudge> I don't want to be small minded. I want you to enlighten me. [23:29] * Mitsou gave a more lengthy decsription of her ideas than SP did of his so will say little more about it [23:30] * SP-Drudge decides to go cool his jets before he makes any more enemies tonight... [23:30] *** SP-Drudge (lwalsh@ppp48-pool1a.sel.zebra.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving ) [23:30] <Thena> Why do we have to have enemies online? Why can't we all just get along? :p [23:30] <Mitsou> yeah... [23:31] <zj> wait a second [23:31] <Rap> I need enemies [23:31] * Mitsou hugs Thena...friends? [23:31] <zj> that is familiar [23:31] <Rap> its my why of valiodating myself [23:31] <Donte> Because not everyone likes each other [23:31] <zj> what the hell was the respons to "why can't we all just get along" a few years ago [23:31] <Donte> just like in real life [23:31] <Mitsou> zj: the response was the end of a riot [23:32] <zj> i don't know??? [23:32] <Rap> actually the riot went on for several days [23:32] <Thena> group hug! [23:32] <zj> i've been away for so long [23:32] <zj> so many things forgotten along the way [23:32] <Mitsou> Rap: I thought that statement was on the last day of the rioting? [23:32] <zj> but i still have all of those Mint In Box Power Ranger action figures in my room [23:32] <zj> and the zords [23:33] <zj> I am debating if i should put them for sale on ebay or not [23:33] <Mitsou> sell them now while people still want them...in a few years they might be worthless [23:33] <Rap> mits - more towrds the middle [23:34] <Mitsou> tanks for correcting me Rap...guess I was too busy during those days getting free stuff and burning things to remember ;) |